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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jun 27, 2010 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DDP v.8

They played 5 shows in Dec.72' you left out 12/12,a night on which they played very good versions of Dark Star,Playin' and the Other One.I would like you cite a few examples of Dark Star in which they play "10-20 minutes of unintelligible feedback",because I have listened to every Dark Star on the archive(pre-1980)multiple times and have not found a single passage to be unintelligible,never mind 10-20 minute chunks.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jun 27, 2010 3:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DDP v.8

Obviously you have a problem with my use of "unintelligible feedback"...Thats fine, but my point was many stars from 72-74,in my opinion, have so much feedback-spacey-rumblings that they lose people. Thats not to say I dont like it. I was saying I thought this one was different in that it is still 34 minutes yet it does not really slow down enough to bore even the most impatient person. It definately has some creepy feedback moments, but Garcia seems to bust out of each one of them just in time. There is direction that is palpable, and it is one of my very favorite. That is all I was saying.

This post was modified by Skobud on 2010-06-27 22:59:18

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Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 28, 2010 3:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DDP v.8

I completely understand what you are saying. This is not limited to Dark Stars, but also a number of Other Ones as well. Some of these performances do away with the more thematic or structured jamming and head into deep space territory more than others. I don't generally refer to it as "unintelligable" or otherwise lacking in terms of desirability, but I get your point. Some Dark Stars tend to drift into that "noisy" territory for quite some time, and I like that sort of thing, before building into more thematic, lyrical jamming. 5/18/72 is somewhat of a good example of that. I think the Other One from 11/25/73 is similar as well (I think that is the date, the one where they do the Other One for about 5 minutes, then head into Bobby McGee, then into a deep space for a good 10+ minutes). Other Stars like 2/15/73 stay pretty much on course and maintain a discernable tempo or structure. There are many examples of both, obviously, but basically I'm just agreeing that I understand your notion that sometimes the more multilayered Stars and Other Ones often contain more dissonant passages that can "lose" people who don't care as much for that sort of jamming. I personally love it, as 72-74 (and late 71) is probably my most listened to/most loved period of the band (though I am also a big 67-69 freak, but to me that isn't even really the same band in terms of show structure as well as approach towards the jamming). It is a type of jamming specific to the era where you get so many textures and layers in one song alone that you do not find in the 76-95 range.

This post was modified by Jim F on 2010-06-28 10:09:08

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 28, 2010 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DDP v.8

Yeah, 11/23/73 has that big space (which comes before Bobby McGee) - the 10/25/73 Dark Star is another example where Phil decides to take over with the feedback bombs from hell - and of course Dec '73 is full of those.
Closer in date to our DDP, the 11/19/72 Dark Star is one of the spaciest ever (very meandering) - and 11/26/72 also has long stretches of goopy madness.
(The next Star from 2/15/73, as I recall, goes right into a nice Phil solo after the verse, so we lose the usual space-jam.)
I would've thought the 12/11/72 Dark Star has enough weird space to scare off the timid. The more the better, I say! It's certainly a very 'heavy' Star. I'd say the big 12/31/72 jam is the most "accessible" of the month, though the 12/15/72 Truckin'>Star is also quite beautiful. And the Playing in the Bands from this month are totally warped-out versions.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jun 28, 2010 5:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: DDP v.8

Excellent point Jim...I would also throw in the obvious Playin'(72-74) and sometimes Eyes(73-74) as well..Many of those exploratory jams from the same time frame end up in some strange places for sure. Its no coincidence that I hold the entire time frame(fall '72- end of '74) in very high regard.....Jammed out DS, TOO, Playin'and Eyes are probably my favorite things about the band. I also carry a heavy bias for 68-74. Peace.